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Hey everyone, before the show, a quick message, when was the last time you heard someone say, it's almost too easy when talking about a piece of new technology, probably never, right? Because a lot of the time, new tech that's supposed to make your life easier isn't actually doing that, but it should be doing that, but it isn't, but it should be. HubSpot's CRM platform is, it's easy to learn, it's easy to use, and it's easy to love. That sounds a little creepy, but we'll go with it. It's all because it's designed for the way teams actually want to work and connect rather than being just a bunch of apps cobbled together that do not speak to each other, with the suite of powerful tools that seamlessly connects your teams. Once you get the hang of it, it's almost too easy to use. So go ahead and learn how HubSpot can help your business grow better at HubSpot.com. Howdy folks, it is Thursday, December 1st. Wow, December already, how bad that. I'm Jacob Cohen here with Juliet, Bennett, Ryle, and you are listening to The Hustle Daily Show. Today we're going to be talking about Yahoo! It's an early internet company that somehow feels both obsolete but is also used by almost a billion people each month. After trading hands the last couple of years, the company is developing some big plans to become relevant again, and potentially much more lucrative. Juliet's got the scoop on that, but before that, here's what else is going on in the world of business and tech. Let's get crackled at it. All right, first things first. On the Twitter front, a revenue analyst at Twitter in Europe reportedly shared screenshots with tech outlet platformer that add revenue in their Europe, Middle East, and Africa region is down 15% year-over-year and that weekly bookings are down 49% as platformer pointed out. This is especially bad news given the timing. Black Friday, Suburban Day, and the World Cup are supposed to be some of the biggest days of the year for Twitter. And platformer cited one former Twitter exec calling the developments catastrophic. So, I will say this, about a week ago everyone thought the site would crash completely and it did not, so there's that. Yeah, okay, that's somewhat positive. Also on a related note, just days after, and I quote, going to war with Apple over the company's 30% App Store Commission fees, Elon Musk tweeted that he met with Tim Cook at Apple's Cupertino headquarters. At the time of recording this, we have no details on what they discuss though. He does sound a lot nicer in that tweet than he did earlier this week. Do you think that he brought some sort of like, appliance with him? What kind of appliance? Like instead of a sink, maybe he brought like, I don't know, a nicest preso machine or? Oh, yeah, sort of car or something. Yeah, just something like a little yeah, yeah, I could see that. I could see that. Well, on another related note, Netflix CEO Reed Hastings says he berated his M&A team that they didn't buy wordle. How about that? He said that would have been perfect for us at the New York Times deal book conference yesterday. He also said that he thinks Elon Musk's critics should give him a break adding that he thinks Musk is the most creative person in the world, that he's convinced Elon is trying to help the world. And that he praises Elon for buying Twitter for $44 billion instead of buying a big yacht. Fair, but he could have also maybe like, solved homelessness in the United States. So I'm just say, like, let's not go, let's not go too crazy there. Right, right. He does sound like he's a big fan of Musk. Yeah, yeah. All I have to say to that though is this, have you seen that TikTok chocolate tier that is building all these crazy things? No, but I'm going to look it up immediately after that because I think that is the most creative person in the world. All right, I'm going to check it out. Anyway, in other news, Jung Jo, a Chinese city that is home to what's known as iPhone City or the Foxconn factory town that has some 200,000 workers, along with some other major Chinese cities, is lifting an intense COVID lockdown since October, and all the testimonies, disruptions there, around this factory of cost Apple $1 billion weekly. Wow. So they're probably happy about this. Apple supply chain has long been deeply exposed to developments in China, and the pandemic has really shed light on this as an issue, but it's an issue that Apple has been addressing. A recent analysis of Apple supply chain data from Reuters found up to 47% of its suppliers were China based between 2014 and 2019, and that's dropped to 36% in 2021. Also, Meta is reducing its real world footprint, deciding not to renew a 250,000 square foot office lease in New York City. Mark Zuckerberg also said yesterday at the New York Times conference that the vast majority of his time and the vast majority of Meta's efforts are still going towards social media, not the metaverse. It was actually a funny moment amid a serious discussion because part of this discussion was happening in virtual reality, and Mark Zuckerberg had a bunch of pickups as that was going on. Tech hiccups are like actually had the hiccups. Actual and actual bad of hiccups. Wow. Okay. Well, it happens to the best of us. Yeah, happens to the best of us. And lastly, San Francisco approved a policy that lets police use robots as a deadly force option if absolutely necessary. No, thanks. Right. It feels like many scary movies begin with this plot. They can't even handle having guns that they're supposed to use only if absolutely necessary. So I'm going to say no to the robot. So though, I guess I really don't have a choice. Here they come. It's hard to say. Here they come. Okay. And some interesting data coming out of Tesla. For years, Tesla has been able to enjoy a majority share of the US Electric Vehicle market with little competition. And while the company's done a great job using its first mover advantage to expand its lineup, it's charging network and its factories around the world. This period of near unchallenged growth is rapidly closing. So what's happening? Per estimates from S&P global mobility. Tesla's US EV market share will drop to less than 20% by 2025 down from 71% last year. As more affordable options become available, Tesla's entry level Model 3, which starts at more than $40,000 is looking increasingly pricey. To that end though, it was reported this week that Tesla is ramping up development of a cheaper Model 3. And the company is also delivering its first ever electric semi-truck to Pepsi today. And big picture roughly just 5.1% of the 10.2 million vehicles registered in the US through Q3 were electric. Now that's up from 2.8% in 2021. So it's small but grown fast. And I think with that, it is time for today's main story. Juliet Stalkiahu. When I think about Yahoo, here's what comes to my mind, right? Old email addresses where most of my spam probably went. Yeah, I got one of those. Yeah, maybe some aggregated news. I'm thinking of a place where people sometimes go to look at financial data of companies and stocks. And a place where some of my friends definitely go to play fantasy sports. But I feel like when you're looking at all that, most people can't easily tell you what Yahoo even does. Is it a tech company, a media company, just a website? If you look at Google search data over the past two decades or so searches for Yahoo.com peaked right around now December in 2009. And since then they've steadily declined to their lowest point ever. But the site is still visited by a lot of people each month. And now they've planned to what become cool again, useful again. What is next for Yahoo? Well, clickbait ads is the latest news ever. Yeah. But there's more than that. So recently, Yahoo announced a 25% stake in an ad company called Tabula according to TechCrunch. Tabula, you've certainly seen it. They have these things called chumbucks ads, which are like, so you know how like if you're on a news website and you scroll to the bottom, they'll be like an array of thumbnails leading to possibly the worst articles you've ever seen. Yeah, it's like this miracle pill will help you grow another three feet. Yeah, one weird trick doctors don't you know? Or I always get the ones that are like, I don't know why, but it's always like you all believe what this child star from 1984 looks like now. And it's like, I don't know. I don't care. I don't care what they serve those ads on other websites. Exactly. So that's their deal. And apparently they are pretty huge. They have partnered with 9,000 publishers and reach 500 million people a day. So big numbers there. So they're essentially going to take over native advertising across Yahoo's brands, which includes AOL, if you remember them, they still have a website. You can go to TechCrunch and gadget a bunch of other media publications, Yahoo Finance, Yahoo Sports, etc. Those are all under the Yahoo umbrella. Yes. So Yahoo CEO, Jim Landzone believes that digital advertising while down right now has a huge wind in the long term. And they anticipate to generate a billion dollars in annual revenue from their partnership. Okay. And like we said, Yahoo actually does get about 900 million monthly active users across its properties for India. So surprisingly alive more so than you might think. Yeah, I would say. Now Yahoo may be doing a couple of other things. You may recall in 2021 Verizon, which had owned Yahoo sold its measity of businesses, which included Yahoo and AOL to Apollo Global Management for about $5 billion. Now according to Axios, Apollo quickly sold off some of Yahoo's assets. It's now focusing on a couple of interesting endeavors, the two most interesting to me being adding betting to Yahoo Sports. Yeah, it already offers apparently I did not know this perhaps you did a paid subscription for people who are really into fantasy sports like it gives you data and all sorts of I don't know things that you need to do your fantasy league. Yeah. And then it also is interested in building what it calls a Bloomberg for retail trading into Yahoo Finance, which would come with a suite of tools for buying and selling stock. So those are two interesting things potentially very lucrative things. I think yeah, Yahoo also had TV for a hot second. I remember watching season six of community on it. And it also had this show called other space that I really liked. But then Yahoo was just like no more TV. It was like a very like a Yahoo original. Yeah, like a Netflix. Oh my god. Well, rebooted community, which had I think started on NBC. And then it had its own shows too. But then they just kind of again disappeared into the ether. So it's kind of I don't know. I feel like Yahoo has done just about everything possible that a tech slash media company could do in the course of its run since 1984. Yeah. All right. But I'm being about to be in that's going to do it for us today. Thanks for tuning into the hustle daily show. We're a proud part of the HubSpot podcast network. Our editor today's Ezra Trupeon our executive producers Darren Clark. We've got a lot more tech and business coverage in our newsletter. If you're not subscribed, go subscribe at the hustle.co slash email. Have a great Thursday. And first day of December. It's going to be a good month. We'll catch you tomorrow. Hey, everyone. Just a quick message about another really good show on the HubSpot podcast. Network from award-winning host and entrepreneur, John Lee Dumas. It's called entrepreneurs on fire. And I can tell you this. JLD and the entrepreneurs he has on bring the heat. Each episode stokes inspiration. Yes, we're going to continue with the fire ponds and share strategies to fire up your entrepreneurial journey. Sorry. Had to do that. Had to do it. Anyway, you'll catch episodes on everything from bringing techniques from improv comedy to your business to the psychology of risk taking to playbooks on investing and branding to overcoming depression as an entrepreneur to stories about successfully navigating wild career pivots from the military or bartending to CEO roles. It's a show about entrepreneurs by an entrepreneur and it's lit. Sorry. Had to throw one more in there. So go ahead and listen to entrepreneurs on fire or ever you get your podcasts.

Money FM 89.3, the best of prime time. In the spotlight on Money FM 89.3. Thanks for joining us on Prime Time. I'm Bharati Jagdish. Now let's put things simply. If you want to learn how to bake, you go to a baking school, right? Or you go in a printis for a baker. Likewise, if you want to drive, you'll go look for a driving instructor. Basically to learn a skill, any skill, you learn from someone who has that skill. And if you want to become an entrepreneur, do you know who you can go to learn it from? Business school alone won't do. So for aspiring entrepreneurs and to get some advice, Kent Till has been invited to the studio. He is founder and CEO of a company called Invade and he might just have the answers that you need if you aren't aspiring entrepreneur. Or maybe you've tried it out and failed. Worry not, help is on the way. Hi, Kent. Thanks for joining us in the studio today. Hi, Bharati. Hi, everyone. So Kent, first of all, let's talk about your business. Invade. I looked it up online and there's a very fancy description here. It's in the business of space content activation. So you work with space managers and landlords to reimagine their spaces. What exactly do you do and why did you decide to do this with your life at this point? In other words, tell us about your entrepreneurial journey. Yeah, I think the workspace content activation is really from a differentiation point that we like to make. Of course, in layman terms, we often been regarded as an events management or events agency. But I think the one that we're trying to deliver is creative space making. We think that there are plenty of spaces that are underutilized and then events is actually one way that we can place make and make a space interesting. So therefore the name. So this already gives me a clue as to the sort of advice you would give an entrepreneur. So make sure that whatever your value proposition is, it sounds fancy. Basically, to find that differentiation point to be able to provide real value to the problem that you're trying to solve. So what got you started on this? What made you want to be an entrepreneur? I guess I'm trying my whole school life. I was like into event organizing. I love to organize orientation, school camps and whatnot. Like to be the two-scale post, right? Trying to look at how do we make student life more interesting. How is the complete opposite? I just go to the event where I don't want to do the work. Let's do the work for you. So then comes a unique life where I kind of like start to travel, look at, you know, let's visit Bangkok, let's visit Taiwan, let's visit all the different cities. And realize that, hey, markets, night markets, flea markets, artisan markets are very, very interesting. It speaks the local culture a lot, right? Where you get to learn more about their culture, speak to the locals, where the hustle and stuff like that. So we love that. We love exploring those markets. And then we kind of like, it's very naive thinking, but then we've my kind of experience in organizing events. And I love visiting flea markets and night markets. Why don't I kind of like marry them together and then go into event organizing just for artisan markets, festivals and flea markets? Okay, but you could have easily done this by joining an events company of sorts, right? And working for them. Why did you decide to go out on your own? Honestly, not much of like planning or like, you know, business plan or writing or business plan. And then why should I start my entrepreneurship journey? I just think that because I think that I'm solving a problem and by coming up with a solution. And then entrepreneurship is my answer to that. So it didn't mean that I need to join an events company to say that, oh, I'm to propose an organized flea market, you know, on behalf of the boss and stuff like that. It just, it comes naturally, I guess, I know that it's a problem. There's not much interesting flea markets or night markets in Singapore. There's no permanent night markets and stuff like that. And I was like, hey, why don't we organize one? And then to organize one, therefore, I have to be just set up my own company and do my start my entrepreneurship journey. It just comes naturally if you actually nobody asked me that question before. That's funny. In the aspect, like in the aspect, why entrepreneurship to that company? Yeah, why not just go work somewhere? Yeah, correct. Tell them I can do this for an employer. Well, I'm glad you've at least been asked this question once. And you have an answer for it. But it must have been challenging, which is why you yourself have come up with a program for other startups, a mentorship program, which we will talk about in a moment in greater detail. But what was some of the challenges you faced as you were doing this? I think back then it was about 12 years ago, 2010, when I guess entrepreneurship wasn't as vibrant in a sense of like, there's no such thing as co-working spaces, grants, seed funding, series A, series B, series C, and go on and on. 12 years ago, it was more dull. You are more in the sense of like, you have to probably run solo in the sense of like, there isn't much help or you wouldn't know. Information doesn't come as ready as now. So back then, we were like in that kind of space where we need to figure things out on our own. If we need the office space then we ran or we're banking with someone else. And then if we want to register a business, what should we do? Should we be a private limiter? Should we be a partnership? No, all these things come to us and then we have to kind of like, set it up on ourselves. So then that gave us that kind of like a starting point. And then when we thought that organizing a flea market is very simple, it's just like, get a space. You know, ran some tables and people would just take up a store and then you know, that you have it a flea market, right? It wasn't that simple. No, I mean, no, it's not that simple at all. Right. Many of these shopping malls, they were saying that, oh, you know, it's not on brand. It's like flea markets and markets that doesn't really match the image and positioning. So then they kind of rejected us. So we really have to go to a lot of shopping malls before one of them actually said, okay, there's this random corner on level five to you want that. So I was like, oh, okay, then let's take it out of the way. That's the only option we have. And then we kind of like approach all the different storeholders. Because back then we don't have data base. We don't have network. We don't know anyone. So where can we go? Then very nice thinking again, we just, oh, let's go to Boogie Street and ask all the store owners to they want to rent a pop-up shop. Right. But then most of them are shop assistant. They don't care in general. Or they'll say you have to talk to my boss. You don't have to talk to my boss. And all right, okay, like, you know what, I support you. I got some second hand clothes down to sell. And let me rent a shop from you. So, so we kind of like recruited around four to five storeholders, but we needed 20. So in the end, my first venture failed. I didn't manage to happen in my first flea market. How did you get from there to success? So I think we were honest. We kind of faced the situation and we call each and every one of them and say that, hey, sorry. We kind of organized the flea market. If we were to proceed, we would like lose a lot of money. And it's like back then we would just start out. So would you like to bunk in with someone else? So we approach other flea market organizers and say that they would like to take in these five stores that we didn't manage to find your space for them. So I think got started from there. Then we talked to the flea market organizer. Although we are like friendly competitors, they told us that, okay, you know, there's other spot that you can rent and stuff. So we started our journey from there instead. So what would you say if you had to put it in a nutshell, is your key to success? Considering that you failed, you tried it, you know, the old fashioned way in the old times, it failed. But then you have managed to grow the business to this extent today. I always believe in that. Rinse and repeat kind of model. I think there's no easy way around. I think it's very cliche to say that. But I think the more you do, the luckier you get, I really believe that a lot. Entrepreneurs doesn't mean that, oh, flexible timing. You can free an easy, you can do whatever you want. And she's on the contrary, it's like the more you do, then the more results you get to you, that's as straightforward as blatant as it is. So I think from back then from 2010 until now, I think it's really on like on a constantly hustle and kind of like grind mode. So constantly look out for different kind of opportunities. But stay focused. Always identify your core target audience, the users, and what's the problem that you're trying to solve. And more or less, the solutions that come up with always revolve around those ingredients that you already have in your base. So I think our first breakthrough or first milestone is we get to be the term flea market organizer at Skate. You know when FIT Skate first started. Right. That was this like flea markets and reading. Yeah, they were trying to do something different. Yeah, so then we managed to secure a relationship with Skate. But then Miss Limchil was the chap herself. So then she said, okay, let's go ahead. You know, we kind of like do our flea market every weekend. So from like 10 stores, but we can, we grew to 160 stores per weekend. Every day, then it's just grow and grow in those all day, that's a base. So did you have a mentor? Not quite, honestly. That's why we came out with something, right? Yeah. So we think that that's why you now have something called the Somerset Sandbox. Yeah. Yeah. So sandbox Somerset is a kind of like an idea that I thought that, Hey, I, it's very, very simple message. I just want to be able to profile and able identify 100 you founders in the food, retail and creative space. Because if you ask me and you today, like, who are our hundred founders? Who are our next generation of founders with achieved certain milestones? Of course, we have been talking about Sim Wang Hu today. But yes, you're looking for the next generation. Right. So we know some, right? But so, but we don't know all. So it's just a simple message. I identify them, showcase them, profile them and highlight them. Okay. Why those particular sectors though, FNB and creative industry? So it's a bit selfish reason in the sense of like, because if you look at the tech founders, like they get a lot of attention, right? Yeah. You know, they raise 1 million, 10 million, 100 million. Then they always constantly being the news because the numbers are big, right? But how about those that is like, you know, hustling and like, grinding, like, working level, 5 a.m. needs to buy the ingredients and you know, you'll set up their shop and stuff. So I just want to have an opportunity to highlight them because I call those traditional business like me. So back then, 10 years ago, there wasn't such opportunity. So why don't I start it now? I'm not the age anymore, sadly. I'm like 38 this year, but I want to, those that are like the... Still very young. The younger generation, the 25s to 35s. And then the actual concept has been very supportive. They're straight waiting that, hey, this is something that we're looking out for. Founders, oriented, initiative. They haven't really quite dabbed into that. So then they were like saying, okay, this is really something that they want to get behind with. Okay. We'll talk a little bit more about that in a while. But something you said earlier struck me that being an entrepreneur, that being an entrepreneur is not about flexible work hours and all that. In fact, you are hustling quite a bit, right? To what extent do you think really the idea of entrepreneurship has still or is still being romanticized? Unfortunately, in terms of like where the media space, the media outlets, the way they put tree, right? They celebrate a lot of successes, they celebrate a lot of like, oh, funding, funders, top unicorns and stuff. So I think that is where people have those dreams and say, you know what, I want to be the next billion dollar company and next hundred million dollar company. That's just different terms for real. The ponies, the centrist and the unicorns. Unicorns, yeah. So that's really kind of like romanticized that way. So what are you actually people are aware they'll have to put in a lot of work in order to get there? They may or may not be. I mean, that's that one successful company. But you know that it's like ten thousand that fail, you know, that kind of things. Right. People know, but sometimes people just don't want to face that hard truth as they're okay. Ten thousand fail, you know, to get one successful player. The thing is, at one point, I noticed that everybody and their mother wanted to be an entrepreneur. Is that still the case? This was a few years ago, you know, when the government was trying to cultivate entrepreneurship. Because at that time, not many people were getting into it. But these days, it feels like everyone wants to has a start-up or has an idea for one. What's your perspective though? I think it's good regardless. Why is because entrepreneurship regardless can be an important attribute that you can take it to your full-time employment. I mean, there's no such thing as you fail. Right. Regardless, it is an attribute that you can take it home, right? Refuel. Because it's the lessons that you learn the perspective, the experience that you take in it, as well as the point at that juncture. Right. So with that, I think it's valuable that you can bring it to full-time employment regardless. Right. So I will say that is the perspective that I'm looking at. They call them entrepreneurs when they do it within organizations, right? And I know a lot of organizations are looking for employees with that sort of spirit as well. The thing is, you mentioned earlier that when you started off, there was very little information and support. These days, there's a lot of information and support out there. So what exactly are you offering in terms of value add through this sandbox? I guess what I'm trying to say is it doesn't mean it gets easier just because there's a lot of support and help. What we're trying to do here is to condense, right? Because again, most of these startup entrepreneurs are... We call it bootstrap entrepreneurs, right? It's like one-man show, two-man show, right? They do not... They might not have the ability to seek out information. That's the... I mean, the beauty and of course, the downside of current days is that there's plenty of information over what I mean overloaded. Then perhaps they are looking at some form of like condense kind of information like, okay, you know what? Exactly what I can get help with. Right? What is my next immediate point? Right? Because for example, if I am a... say, for example, I'm a 100K business, a 100K revenue kind of thing. When I look for a mentor, should I look for a 10 million dollar company, or 100 million dollar company? No. You should look for a million dollar company startup, for example, as a mentor. Because it's more relevant, more closer to where you are. Probably the problem that you're trying to solve, or the problem that you face might be similar. So, it's things like that. It's always at the right time and right context. So, what sample some of that did was, you know, we actually condense it into a two weeks pop-up, right, a container park where we gather all the entrepreneurs together, the veterans, the young ones, the inexperienced, the veterans as well, the curators themselves. And opportunities for everybody to get together. Because I know that everybody is like busy, firefighting, rental increase, manpower cannot find. Everyone have their daily firefighting to do. But for that, just that two weekends gather together, with the right context and right space, connect and explore. Right. So, they have full-on conversations with people who can help them, maybe deal with specific problems or challenges as well. Yeah. So, for us as the first three data, we enable through panel sessions, there's plenty of like, get together networking sessions, meaningful ones, right, in a more casual environment, let's talk and explore. What was your recent updates? What have you been doing? And then, these are the hundred founders. I just want to focus on them first. How did you decide which hundred? So, what was the criteria? So, back then, it was a struggle because together with National Human Council, we don't even know our hundred yet. So, who are we to say that, oh, you deserve to be in and you don't deserve to be in? No, no. It is more like a pilot program for this hundred at this juncture. And then together with some of the three associations, like Singapore retailer associations, some of the private sectors like Timber, for example, they provided some names, right? So, to shortlist and condense and form our hundred pilot. Okay, good that it was bottom up at least, right? So, very organic in a sense. I understand that over a million dollars worth of seed funding was handed out to outstanding business ideas by upcoming youth entrepreneurs during this inaugural sandbox that you had. Nominations are open for the next batch of a hundred sandbox summer set youth founders to mentor the next generation. So, tell us more about this. This is the what's next and how can people get involved? Yeah, so, we hope to broaden the scope. There are a lot of private sector that saw what we did and would like to contribute because it's all about making positive impact, right? Trying to support as much as possible, that's one. Second is there are very, very passionate founders that contribute beyond just, you know, they say, oh, you know, come for photo shoot, come for some. Some went beyond and say that what else can I do? Right, so we want to identify them together with them and highlight the next season founders, right? And then of course, there are some of them. We call them day one entrepreneurs, right? Day one startups. Day two should have opportunities as well to pop up for one day, you know, you know, showcase their products and stuff. As for the one million dollar funding, it's also because a shop tank series that we collaborated with Syed Ventures, basically the founders will pitch in front of 30 to 35 sharks in the sense of what that's supposed to. From sharks, but then there's also other. 30 to 35, okay? Yeah, potential investors, right? Then you pitch your idea. And then straight away, you will have a survey to get the sky to the sky and say that do I want to invest in this startup or not? Okay, okay. This is a very, very brutal one, but then it's very quite fun, right? Yeah, I'm sure. This is the way it should be done now. I think that sounds even better than the TV show. So if people want to get involved, they can just Google sandbox, they should be able to find the information. sandboxsamerset.com. Okay, one last thing Kent, before I let you go, what are the most obvious biggest mistakes that you've seen entrepreneurs make? And what should they be doing instead? I think it's even applicable for me actually. Often or not, we kind of like when we do our planning, we always think of the most ideal scenario, but really, really, really, really ideal plan for it, but really be prepared for embrace the worst scenario outcome that you think can happen to your business idea or your startup of your venture, right? Really imagine the worst because, well, I'm very good to say that, but that's... No, I'm aligned with you. It's just that people always call me the party pooper when I do that. Yeah. And they don't invite me to parties after that. Because they have a vocabular button, you can get a size-lar button. It really have to kind of think for a bit and ensure you get excited by shiny objects, right? Go for it. I mean, that is the passion that drives, right? The very essence of entrepreneurship, but also kind of a plan for the worst, right? What is the worst that can possibly happen? And come up with a solution. A solution of at least, we'd be prepared for it. Okay, that's a good tip for a pitch that you might do at the next sandboxsamerset. Thank you so much, Kent, for joining us today. Kent, Theo, founder and CEO of Invade. And if you'd like more information like we said earlier, just Google Sandbox, Somerset. To listen to more great interviews, download our podcasts at moneyfm893.sg or download our audio app. That's AWEDIO, available on Google Play or the App Store.